The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! I don't know if there are enough Officers getting out that would be willing to revert to WO to solve the pilot shortage, but maybe it would help. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. As a Guard or Reserve pilot, you may need to find a full-time flying job in addition to your military flying (full-time Guard/Reserve pilot jobs are available, but you should join with the expectation of needing civilian employment in addition to your military flying). Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. If you want to fly the U-2, you must start on Active Duty. Can't be branched aviation. One of the reasons for the increased ADSO was related to demand from the private sector for pilots. If anything it hurts recruiting new pilots. I'm in better shape today than I was 10 years ago. It's not exactly friendly but this is the military. This may be because the Army has not undertaken the same in-depth approach to understanding this problem as other services. There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. Your flight school ADSO is based on when you graduate WOBC and pin on your flight wings. It is for anyone graduating flight school and should be based on your graduation date. Think they will pay the bonuses and flight pay like the other branches? The institution of the new ADSO stands in testimony to a DOD organization entrenched in process and procedure at the expense of adjustment to any current reality. Whether you elect the Branch of Choice or Graduate School Program, there are slight differences to your commitment for those who branch Aviation. Hes likely deployed at least 3 times, if not more, and has also spent many weeks TDY. Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? It's almost as though he completely and totally ignored the concept of morale and esprit de corps. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. Before trying to add more pilots, or change quality of life (which I don't think they're trying to do), they should look at leveling the demands on pilots within the ranks. There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. I assume you're in flight school officially once completing BCT and WOCS. There are a lot more BCTs, SF groups, SFABs and NG/USAR units than there are CABs. If you want military aviation to be a part of your life for more than 10 years, possibly even 20+ years, you should pursue any path that will get you there! It doesn't matter that the WOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. Also new is that time in grade for WOs doesn't start until you graduate flight school. I just want to stop leaving my family all the time! He is the author of thejumo brief, a free weekly newsletter for Army leaders. Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..? The report included a figure showing that the Army faced a shortfall of 330 warrant officerswho comprise 70 percent of the Armys pilot ranks. I don't know too many that would care to be told to mop the floor of the pilot's office, fill the refrigerator, go help wash the aircraft the things that junior warrants typically do when they are new to a unit out of flight school. I want to do it for as long as I can. army aviation 10 year adso. They just can't have over 8 years TIS without a waiver. I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. You can post now and register later. At first, his idea sounded reasonable to me. Especially since TN he Chinooks are B Co 2-104 from CTARNG and I was the CDR and PC sitting in the left of the Chinook in the foreground on the left. Within the company we tried to level out flight time to give the senior guys some rest, but the battalion/brigade leadership was too risk averse and pushed back. Ideally, hed also earn his Instrument Rating, and build as much experience as possible. Ive also called this the, Stans idea (Do 5 years as an engineer, then fly for the Guard or Reserve), Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. We should approach our congressmen to change the re-entry rules to allow ATPs. Would they do it with a 12-year commitment? When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. At least in the early 2000s, there was the ARFORGEN cycle. On the reset year, units focused on team building, socializing, individual skills, and professional development. More than likely the Lts selected will be lower on the Order of Merit List. Why would you stay in the Army where you barely get to be a normal human, where you could make twice the pay, work half the amount, and actually get to live a somewhat normal life? Why should you consider doing Company . USMA graduates accepting an appointment in the Regular Army incur a 5-year ADSO (10 USC 4348). I assume if you're not in flight school by that date, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. Although neither has been officially announced, the Army is rumored to be considering two proposals: a provisional status for warrant officer candidates until they graduate flight school and an increase in time-in-grade to make chief warrant officer 2. Though I agree that there is a retention problem, especially within aviation, I'm not sure the Army is focused on the right issue here. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. Not difficult for the Army in finding 400 additional career minded E-3 to E-7 for the WOFT program if need be. While Stans Option #3 seems to bypass a lot of this, lets look at what hed have to do: This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. This is usually a 1-year assignment, though it might be two. NO WOFT POSTS. The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. The ARMY should allow ATP for all prior service men willing and fit to fly. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a suddenBAM! You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. I see three and four star Generals with less, HOW?! People are tired. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. This used to be unheard of. is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. Once he identified some units in which hes interested in, hed need to start. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. At the same time it could drive a shortage of Aviation Officers, but if they're going to leave the Army anyway. So got word that it only affects WOs that complete WOCS after 1 Oct 2020. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school inFY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. The AvB is used to offer bonuses to aviators with critical skills or MOSs. I bet less than 300 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. What if you transfer from being an officer with 8 years of service (including enlisted time) to being warrant aviation? In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. I don't know how common my situation is, but I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who barely flew, while there are others flying until they drop. We need better leadership courses that foster problem solving, the importance of critical thinking, and using surrounding talent to identify the cause of issues/solutions. These cadets may not be willing to forgo an extra four years of civilian work experience to serve as aviation officers. 10 is nuts. There are also discussions within the Army aviation community of additional changes that would make becoming a warrant officer even less appealing. You cannot paste images directly. If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. It seems the 10 year ADSO is now official. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Vertical Reference Up to $15K per year payable to officers drawing Optometrist Regular Special Pay who have completed initial ADSO for education and training, and who execute a 12-month active duty service agreement. On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. I dont think I wouldve taken the 10 Year ADSO, considering that Id just now be ALMOST complete with 10 yrs aviation service. The earlier you can, INTERVIEW PREP PACKAGE (eCourse + 1-on-1's), 1 HOUR INTERVIEW PREP ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), 1 HOUR APP REVIEW ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop, The Ultimate Guide to Earning a Pilot Slot in Air Force ROTC, Part 1, As Stan would be finishing up his 5-year ADSC, hed need to be shopping for Guard and Reserve UPT board announcements on. Army Aviation Leaders should. Army directive, AD 2021-31, approved Sept. 10, 2021, and effective Oct. 1, 2021, will reset the time required for aviator warrant officers (military occupational specialty 152 through 155) to. reenlistment document. Hah oh good catch. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator, according to an all Army activity message published Aug. 12. Cadets, who have not experienced the Army for even one day as an officer, are now asked to commit up to eleven years for the opportunity to fly for six yearsif they are luckywhile spending the rest of that time on staff, in professional military education, or in broadening assignments. Actually, the option to revert to Warrant Officer does exist. The Army only draws between 300-400 non prior WOFT applcants yearly. This is the amount of time that an officer must serve on active duty. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. Then it gets worse: Over the past 19 years, an Active Duty pilot has also been likely to spend half or more of those operational assignments deployed. Required fields are marked *. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. That will solve our retention problem!" This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? The OPTEMPO is higher now than it was at the height of GWOT. Wonder if you can get out early if NOT making CW3 or must you hang around. For example, its the only service that allows people to go into flight training with only a high school degree. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. By policy, the Army must review the AvB program quarterly to determine the program's effectiveness. Holla at yo boy and lemme know what y'all are thinking. Im scheduled to graduate, 1st or 2nd week of September. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. I am a former Aviation Officer and when I got out after my ADSO was complete I was surprised that no one questioned why or tried to get me to stay. Brennan Randelis a captain in the United States Army and is the former commander of Alpha Company, 4-2 Attack Battalion stationed at Camp Humphreys, South Korea. I greatly appreciate the responsiveness of this community and the depth of feedback y'all have provided, but I want to be sure that the consensus expressed herein is not just the culmination of a bunch of bad experiences but is actually a systemic issue. Aviation continuation pay 2 . Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. Start date has no impact on this. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. Change flight school where primary flight training is done by civilian contractors via fixed wing. Then 10 year service obligation put me right at 20 so Im not too worried about that. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots retention in the future. The new policy doesnt include Soldiers currently in training, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, aviation and officer policy integrator for the Armys G-1 office. Expect bonuses to disappear as well. Did ROTC, then Aviation, allegedly 6 years upon completion of flight training. Like it or not, you need to accrue that experience one way or another, First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. That's the Army's ace in the hole. I wish thiswasa little more clear. For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. It is the cheapest method for increasing retention rates, delivers a long-term investment in human capital, and provides a more predictable model for pilot production requirements. Because honestly put the lifestyle sucks nowadays. There's an easy answer to this the oblivious, tone-deaf culture of "readiness" that GEN Milley fostered while serving as the CSA. I'd sign a 15 year ADSO if they gave me an age waiver (I'm only 35 not 65!). Probably a 11-11.5 year commitment. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. 2-4 more moves for assignments during his Active Duty career. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. "We probably need to look at it and adjust it a . F-22 crew chief: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. Once Stan finally gets qualified in his aircraft, hed get seasoning orders with his Guard or Reserve unit. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. So why are aviators getting out? I would also say if the Army wants to recruit more street to seat, I would require those people to attend Basic Training at FT Benning and intensify the military training for non-prior service WOCs. We are always either training or deploying. A chief warrant officer 3 with eight years of service earns $5093.70 per month, whereas a captain with eight years of service earns $6435.00 per month, a difference of $1,341.30 in favor of non-Army pilots. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. Were looking at troops selected for flight training in the fiscal year 2021 and beyond.. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. The rest are grandfathered in. Your previous content has been restored. This 10 year commitment will definitely dissuade him from the Army. Its important to note that Stans theoretical plan might have allowed him to obtain the 750 hours needed for an R-ATP about 7 years after graduating from college, but thats not competitive for getting hired at a major airline. This means keeping up with at least two airplanes and dealing with two potentially very demanding bosses. Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. The Army should be able to meet their quota through CAREER Enlisted personnel ONLY if they must. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy recently signed a memorandum that increased the ADSOor active duty service obligationfor Army pilots. The U-2 and B-2 are both single-location aircraft, and they go through so much trouble getting their pilots that youd have to try to leave. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! Its shocking that the Army doesnt have any institutional memory about what causes pilot shortage, which are primarily two broad topics: quality of life in the Army, and economic opportunities outside the Army. Is a 10-year Active Duty ADSC so terrible that its worth passing up? No one knows somehow, my S1 doesnt know either. Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Back To Top Think about approving some ETPs. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. I think it would be a great idea to leverage senior NCOs to enter pilot training with a waiver. Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path. Regarding the future Army Commissioned Lts in wishing to branch aviation, that will be an issue next year. That 10 year obligation doesn't start until you finish flight school. Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. Hah right. Lets assume though that Stan can get hired by a unit, and is scheduled to start UPT as soon as his regular ADSC is up. I agreed and accepted my appointment based on certain terms and the terms are getting altered without my consideration. The US Army is missing the boat by not letting seasoned professionals into flight school. It is extremely frustrating to see some officers and senior NCOS make such short sighted decisions to solve complex issues without finding the cause, and not conducting any type of research. How do Warrant Officers get promoted? If you accept an Army scholarship or fellowship, you will owe 3 times the amount or schooling in days. Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. Increasing the ADSO, though, does not require datait is guaranteed to increase retention. Thank you for your time and have a great rest of your day! So 6 years from ALE graduation day? Of the two, retention is the variable that should be targeted. Pasted as rich text. Anyway, I just clocked 20 years, 5 1/2 years of that has been spent in the Middle East and for what? But Army aviation is better than sitting behind a desk and possibly dying of boredom. From this mid-grade officer's perspective this constant obsession with readiness is actually detrimental to readiness. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a, When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and, For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about, For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can . Due to the extreme demand produced by the GWOT, ground formations are insatiable with their demand for aviation support. However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. As a result, the US Army Aviation Center of Excellence initiated a survey to better inform future incentive and quality of life programs designed to increase retention.. The Army says it needs the UH-72 for training because it teaches the use of glass cockpit and other advanced technology. Those serving on active duty for less than 10 years shall serve in the Ready Reserve as follows: For active duty service less than 8 years, 6 years in the Ready Reserve. How long is Army Warrant Officer School? Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. The service should find a better way of addressing its shortage of pilots. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. 10 years is a good rate of return for the experience needed in being a pilot. If I am branched Aviation, this ADSO will begin upon completion of my flight school ADSO. Getting in just under the wire. The views expressed are those of the authors, and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. Thats at least 2 moves and several TDYs in the space of about 2 years. His answer was, Of course not. In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots' retention in the future. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? The increased ADSO shows that senior leaders fundamentally do not understand the issues, and it will do nothing to address the attrition as the years go on. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas.
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